Larry Groff:
I’ll be looking forward to it. So let me just ask the last question, David, if I may. What are you currently working on? And when is your next big show?
David Kassan:
My next big show? Well, I’m thinking that my show is in the Fall of 2011, in New York. I’m excited about it … At Gallery Henoch in Chelsea. I think we’re shooting for September. That date could change, though.
David Kassan:
The paintings I’m currently working on are very varied right now. I think it’s just … People ask me if I’m coming up with a body of work for the show. And I don’t think about painting for shows, I guess. I kind of just go with the wind, I have of things I want to paint and explore.
And I don’t know if that comes out as a cohesive body of work or not … Like I don’t think about planning out all of my piece in advance for a show and then just produce them over the next year. For me, that almost gets to a point of like, well they’re only paintings for the gallery and not paintings that I can evolve and learn from. And I think just for myself, it’s kind of just similar to the last show. Maybe just different subjects. And I mean, different paintings, hopefully.
Larry Groff:
Okay.
David Kassan:
So I don’t know if this is going to be very interesting or not. I hope so, because I hope that I’ve learned a lot in the last year, since my last show. It will be two … It will be like a year-and-a-half, two years, Two-and-a-half years, actually, wow, since my last show.
So I think that the technique will probably be stronger. The emotion, hopefully, will be stronger. The figures will hopefully speak to the people better. My understanding of everything will hopefully be better.
Head Study, Oil on wood panel, 18 x 14 inches
(Click for larger view)
David Kassan:
Oh, okay. Okay. Yes, so what I am I trying to work on? Specifically I’m starting a couple of big pieces. I really want to start doing bigger pieces. Multi-figure. But these are probably going to be more singular figure pieces because I’m not at a place, right now, in my income level where I can kind of just say, I’m just going to paint on one painting for a whole year. I would love to do that.
But these are still kind of, a bigger pieces for me is for me around 4 feet by 8 feet, I’m planning out two pieces around that size. 60 x 80 inch. Eighty inches wide. So it’s in wide screen format and a full standing figure piece that is more vertical 8 feet high.
Larry Groff:
Wow.
David Kassan:
So you can kind of fall into the pieces that way. I think that the bigger pieces tend to kind of enwrap the viewer a little bit more. Like engross them, I guess, so that you kind of feel, you feel a little bit more in the space with the model and subject.
I’m also doing some smaller studies. More intimate pieces. So I can understand myself and my family a little better.
Yeah, so that’s specifically … I’ve been trying to study drawing a little bit more. I’m getting away from that so I can paint a little bit more. I go and like sometimes I’ll just study drawing for like six months and won’t touch painting.
Larry Groff:
Really.
David Kassan:
And that’s just bad, because my gallery doesn’t like that, because then I don’t have anything to show.
Yeah, and I’m trying to stay away from drawing, but I’m in this constant search for the right medium for me. You know, the right kind of, I guess, vehicle to understand things better. Something that comes a little bit more naturally for me than other mediums. I don’t know. I’m just constantly always struggling with them. So Hopefully, that’ll get easier eventually. The magic medium. The magic bullet. You know? I don’t know.
So that’s it, I guess.
Larry Groff:
David, it was awesome. Thank you again.
[End of interview](please note, some revisions were made to this article after it was posted. David felt it needed a little further editing to better convey his thoughts)
Painting Perceptions was started in 2009 by Larry Groff to promote the ideas, practice and experience of painters working from observation in a modernist vein from around the world through interviews, essays, videos and community. It later evolved to include imagination-based and abstract painting as well.
Thanks Larry…another artist I’ll have to hunt down here in Brooklyn. I really enjoy seeing his interest in the graffiti/urban patterns in the backgrounds, or just as a singular focus for a painting. Seems like work that has to be seen in person to fully appreciate. Very funny hearing him talk about meeting Lopez Garcia…must have been a life changing experience…good stuff.
Thanks for this, Larry. I’ve been admiring his work for a while now. Good to hear his thoughts on it and his process.
You raised an interesting question in the interview that I’ve been thinking about lately but am having trouble getting some feedback on. What is the difference between photo-realism and super tight realism done (mostly) from life if a viewer thinks the painting is a photo? The mechanical goals of capturing exacting detail and hiding the hand of the artist seem similar to me.
Most artists treat photo-realism like a red headed step child so it just seems weird to me that there is such a resurgence of tight, classical style rendering. Is this similar to your comparison of Rackstraw Downes to Kevin Macpherson where Macpherson is selling a skill set? Is the power of David Kassan (and many other rising stars) that so many artists want to draw and paint like him so they take his classes and buy his DVD?
Interesting Comment Hank.
Of course photo-realism and other highly rendered realistic painting all have one thing in common – they are made by individuals. So I’m not sure we can easily apply blanket statements to explain the motivations. That said I think there is often a considerable difference in paintings done with the primary goal of accurately copying a photograph (or a range of photos) and paintings with a goal to capture an observed situation accurately. Photorealist paintings often emphasize features commonly seen in photographs like flatness and airlessness. The highly rendered details and smooth surface appeals to many for its apparent high level of skill and complexity and perhaps also its cool detachment and lack of overt emotional expression. Realist works like David’s may look similar as they are also highly rendered with extreme detail and even incorporate the use of photos as David does – but I think there is a difference in the treatment, the surface, and the overall tone of the painting. Some of David’s work does seem closer to photo realism when viewed online but when you see it in person it takes on a whole new experience when you see these life size and the surface. I’ve only seen a few of his paintings but as I recall the form and tonal clarity of these figures are very striking and very different that what you usually see in photorealism.
David is young and unlike many other painters is very savvy with the web’s social media and actively promotes his work and name online. I’m sure a few people may raise their eyebrows over this but I think it’s one good way to try to make a decent living as a painter. I guess you raise a valid issue that it is like Macphersons selling a skill set. I do think there are inherent dangers in pushing the whole self-marketing thing too far. He could risk people in the artworld not taking him seriously but does the artworld take any realist seriously these days? I admire his taking it all head on by himself – getting his work seen and building a large following and getting lots of attention in many of the art magazines like American Artist.
He made a very good production with his DVD. I seen a number of DVD trainings for painters, and most I’ve found either really boring, really dumb or pretentious. His dvd was actually interesting and I only found myself nodding off in a couple of places (which is saying a lot – I almost always fall asleep watching artist dvds!) Now, I’m not interested in drawing like him and probably couldn’t draw that way if I wanted to. But I found a number of things I could relate to my own type of work and it actually inspired me to do more drawing. I’m personally not interested in tight and more classical type realism and academic art really bothers me. There are quite a few painters like him selling their DVDs, workshops, demos and the like. I get so much crap like that in my email and on facebook that it makes me sick and I wind up putting a lot of it in my spam folder. The overriding emphasis on making a buck has a corrupting influence.
Of course, I am not without my criticism of his work. I like many, but not all. I’ve made a policy (up until now anyway – this may change in the future) of not really giving real art criticism here. (the Macpearson article was an earlier one when I was more open to that) I mainly have been wanting to simply showcase or review the wide variety of paintings that are being done from observation (mostly) from very tight realists like David to almost completely abstract. I’ve been thinking that maybe by the end of the year I may change this and go back to having more real criticism – but that is another story.
Thank you Larry.
What really caught my eye is this interview was actually right in the beginning when Kassan talks about the lack of expressive brushstrokes in his work. When I initially think of the statement “lack of brushstrokes”, I automatically think the absence of the artist’s hand however, I don’t believe this is what Kassan is trying to say. While he doesn’t push the bold strokes in his work, due to the fear of distracting the viewer, it is more about building textures through layers and creating a quiet-like weight to his work. This happy medium in his paintings and the way he goes on about it is very thought provoking. I really enjoyed this interview. Thanks for posting it!!
Ally- good observation. I think that many times the brushstroke is seen as the presence of the artist, but Kassan achieves presence differently. I think it’s great that Kassan is able to work directly from observation. As a student, I can attest to the difficulty of finding willing models. I really love that he becomes more involved with his model and that it shows in his paintings- he focuses on bringing out the essence of the model through his layers and removing himself so that the viewer has a direct line to the subject. All of these things combined give the work authority and make it thought provoking. I definitely think that there’s a marked difference between Kassan’s paintings and photographs and I think it comes from his process and concepts about painting/